Welcome And Why Michael Matters

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Welcome to the sweet spot.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Welcome to the sweet spot greetings and welcome. Welcome back to the sweet spot. Sweet spotters, I'm excited today. I'm excited because I have an interview that you're gonna enjoy. We're gonna interview Michael Manswell. Michael is a fantastic human being. I just wanted to start with that. He's a licensed professional counselor, athletics counselor, a mental performance coach, speaker, and he has his own company. He's the founder of Hype, that's HYPE consulting. And I'm super happy today that Michael is here to discuss uh the college dynamic, the mental performance and mental skills and mental health concerns within the college dynamic. And today we're gonna go beyond those titles and credentials, those very impressive credentials that Michael has. Because we want to explore with Michael what he has learned. What has he learned from sitting with athletes when the uniform comes off, right? When the pressure becomes personal and when performance is no longer the whole story, right? There's something bigger or something underneath the hood. So with that introduction, I just wanted to say to you, Michael, welcome. Welcome to the sweet spot. It is an honor, brother, to have you here, to have a young upcoming superstar in the mental performance and mental health landscape for athletics and beyond. Welcome to the sweet spot, brother.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Thank you, sir. Thank you for that uh very iconic introduction. And it's it is an honor to be here. It's a pleasure to be here uh on the sweet spot. I think for me, uh, you listing out a lot of those accomplishments gives me the ability to just self-reflect and be mindful of this moment. So I know today's episode is gonna be legendary.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Wow. Well, great, man. It's just great to be sitting in your presence as well and to have an opportunity to connect with you. And I'm personally very invested in this conversation. I wish I could have more conversations with clinicians that have this kind of background that you have. It's it's really amazing to me that you are you've spent so much time within the college ranks.

Returning To College Athletics

SPEAKER_00 3:09

And what has that been like for you working there?

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yeah, I agree. I think for me, the the number one thing that came up for me being in the collegiate athletic setting was the fact that I was back in the collegiate athletic setting. Um, I was very fortunate to be a Division I football player at the West Virginia University when I was a freshman. So back in 2015 is when I actually started my collegiate uh career. And I was just very passionate because at the time, you know, of course, my goal is to go to the NFL in the future, you know, leave a leave a historic uh career at West Virginia. But I was just very fortunate that my undergrad was in uh sport and exercise psychology, actually. So I I literally got to take what I learned in the classroom and then apply it uh on the field. And so for me, even though I had pro aspirations, I always knew I was gonna pursue the sport psychology field. For me, though, my my journey uh really started when uh unfortunately I was uh unexpectedly dismissed from my uh college football school. And so that is what really introduced me to the landscape of mental health. And so I dealt with, you know, anxiety, depression, uh, trust issues, you know, emotional distress, like all those different psychological factors that make us human. And so I told myself, you know, when I was no longer able to complete my collegiate athletic career, I just told myself, let's just double down on being a really good student and then obviously building blocks uh to become an effective professional. And so fast forward, uh, you know, last year actually in September was my 10-year, I like to say 10-year anniversary of, you know, when I lost my opportunity to continue being a collegiate athlete. And here I was, you know, almost uh the start of year three at uh the University of Arizona being an athletic counselor where I provided psychological support services. So the universe has a fun way of guiding you to where you need to be. Uh but I think being back in the collegiate athletic setting was very unique because while I understood some of the general and fundamental aspects that you know our student athlete population was going through at the time, there's been a lot of change that, you know, naturally happened, especially with, you know, COVID, uh eligibility, the transfer portal, NIL to now revenue sharing aspects. Like there's just a whole bunch of new uncharted uh territories that we got to explore uh, you know, in a confidential setting of mental health counseling. So for me, being a support system for a lot of student athletes was really just heartwarming and rewarding work, but it just gave me a sense of not only just comfort, but that sense of uh purpose, if you will, being in the collegiate athletic space.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

That makes so much sense. And I'm very intrigued by this journey. It's so interesting how we get into where we are destined to be, correct? Uh you you you said dismissed from your college football team. Is that something that you can talk about, or is it something that you sort of put behind you, or dismiss is such a powerful word? I just had to come back to it. Um was were you cut from the team or something, or had a disagreement? Is it something what happened there?

SPEAKER_01 6:30

No, yeah,

The Night That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_01 6:31

it's uh it's it's really like a fundamental part of my story. Um unfortunately, there was the off-the-field incident that occurred um the second night of our uh season. And so unfortunately, like the people that I was affiliated with, they got into an altercation with another group of people. And it unfortunately led into a very negative outcome. But I personally like I didn't get into the uh situation because there was a fight involved, but because I guess I was there or whatever the case may be, we all got unfortunately uh unexpectedly dismissed the following day. And so for me, it was just really hard because like when you get told that you get punished for something you didn't do, and then there's no way back, that's when I also understood the power of radical acceptance. But I also had to understand that, like you said earlier, I was going through my own grieving process before I even like knew what grief truly was. And you know, I was only 18 at the time. Uh, I was, you know, like I said, a college uh sophomore at the time. So I was very, very young in my career. And so when everything happened, you know, one, it happened so quickly. Two, fortunately, my uh my friends that uh received some wounds in the in the altercation, they recovered okay. Um, a lot of people actually left because, you know, they just have the opportunity to pursue uh collegiate football opportunities outside of, you know, West Virginia. Me personally, I just decided to stay because one, I always thought I could just uh make the team again because I think another piece of critical information was that I was a walk-on. So I literally had to try out for the team, you know, twice to make it. And so, you know, when you obtain your dream and then it gets taken away from you. The first thing that nationally came up was like, oh, okay, well, I'll just, you know, try out again. I can earn my spot back, earn the trust of the coaches. Uh, but I did that twice and you know, I never got the opportunity to come back. So that's where, you know, for me, I went through a lot of my, you know, on a daily basis. Like, you know, I was I was very anxious, I was depressed, I was angry, I was, you know, uh conflicted, you know, spiritually and religiously with my my relationship with God. And not only did I realize this was, you know, the the turning point for me professionally, it really gave me the opportunity to see what type of person I am outside of sports. So have we touched upon earlier in the introduction about identity, you know, when you don't know who you are, after you know you associate yourself with a very, very personal and you know, uh commanding identity, once that's taken away, you know, all you're left with question marks. And so it took me a while to rebound and build myself back up to build a life outside of football.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Wow.

Identity Loss And Radical Acceptance

SPEAKER_00 9:23

That is so impressive that you took what was a devastating, it sounds like a devastating moment, right? When you're young like that, and this is your whole identity, and you lose it, and there's no path back, and you're trying to get it back, and you're trying to get your goals together, and they're not working.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

One of the biggest things I've learned was that number one, time is just gonna keep going. And I think the classic uh quote that people say time heals all wounds. I think it's just time and intentional effort heals all helping people understand who they are and the value that they bring outside of sport not only is transformational, but it's important because it's uh inevitability, if you will.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Yeah, I totally get it. And I get what you're saying. I feel it if you're a listener out there and you're hearing this story and this journey, it should be encouraging that you could have an unexpected ending, an unexpected interruption. Things could not go your way. It can look as if you're completely derailed. And yet, and still, if you are intentional to use your word and you allow time and intention to come together to use what you're sharing, Michael. I I really like that combination. The time and intention kind of heals the wound. And look at what's possible, right? You have ascended, you have done extremely well here, and you're meaningfully transforming and changing lives.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

If if you're a human being, you're going to have challenges in life. Now, everyone's versions, everyone's intensities, everyone's style of challenges are going to be naturally different, of course, but everyone's going to struggle. Being trusted and being a support system and a guidance system for people at various stages of their life is one of the most rewarding uh aspects of our career that I could ever ask for. And so, especially during my time working with the older population when I was doing like individual couples counseling, you can be, you know, 40 plus years old. You could have a lot of life experience, and you're still just going to be faced with new adversities that are going to change you moving forward if you allow them in a positive or a negative way. And so I just felt like the human existence, especially on this planet of Earth, mental health is real. Mental health challenges are always going to exist, and there's nothing wrong with that. But when we create a better relationship with it, the perseverance aspect has been my favorite approach and really my favorite perspective on the field.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Wow, I'm just listening to you and I'm just blown away that at 29 you have so much wisdom already amassed. I think these experiences, I agree, these experiences have really been profound in your life. It's not just college, it's even before college, you've been able to do you enjoy working with youth and young

Working With Youth And Healing

SPEAKER_00 12:14

folks?

SPEAKER_01 12:14

I've always been told, but I also accept this for myself. I'm a big kid at heart. And I think for me, it's one of those things where, especially at that youthful age of, you know, three to maybe like your preteen years before you even really you're a teenager, that uh you're so impressionable. And so, like when you have people that pour in belief uh into you that you can excel in a lot of different things, versus just like, hey, you have to only succeed in this one area of life, it prepares you for, you know, when you're faced with different obstacles and different challenges and different growth opportunities that you know that confidently you can overcome or at least just even attempt certain things, right, that are outside your comfort zone. And for me, yeah, working with kids is it puts a smile on my face. Uh, it puts me in a position to recognize the impact that I have as like a role model and uh uh a mentor to people. But I think also uh it really also prepared not only for uh my professional career, but honestly parenthood as well. Because now that uh I am a dad, now it it hits different of how I have to navigate myself, you know, just to set the example for my son for it.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

I feel as if this is a it reminds me of the idea of the wounded healer, right? The the wounded healer, uh by the wounds they're healed, the the person who's wounded actually knows the kinds of things you're going through. And you might have actually more empathy than than most because you get it. You've you've kind of been there in a way.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Absolutely. And I I like what you said earlier as well of uh being in a position that the things that you go through make you wise if you allow it to be a growth mindset uh approach. And I think for me, that's something I also learned as well is like, especially when you go through things, you know, maybe in your early childhood or maybe your young adulthood, it's very easy for those things to have an effect on you as you get older, whether you know you're 21, you're 30, you're 45, you're 60 years old, people are gonna remember, you know, these substantial uh life experiences. And if they never learn how to forgive themselves, if they never learn how to forgive other people, if they never learn the radical acceptance, those type of uh experiences can have a hold on them. And like that wisdom that could evolve really just stays resentment, uh regret, uh, negative just negative uh association with it. And that's something I've learned, like you said, within everyone's life cycle. By the time they get to a certain age and you know they talk about these things, it's very fascinating to work with adults who reflect on, you know, a moment in their childhood with, and again, it's nothing wrong from an emotional standpoint, but like just with such anger or with such sadness, of course, with such uh hopelessness as well. And even though I we still get the opportunity to help guide them and overcome those things, I've always just been fascinating of where you know people can go through a very similar circumstance, but people are gonna process it in a completely different way. And so creating that emotional capacity, that emotional maturity as well, has just been one of my one of my callings really to the field.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Yeah, man. I I I I'm I'm just digging everything you're saying. I'm I'm resonating with it because you're you're hitting every mark. I I feel as if your ability to understand and relate to children, to understand the whole dynamic or the whole dimension of being young and the lessons we're taking in in our youth and how we replay those in our adulthood. I was just reflecting on how when I get mad, I do act like a kid. And uh we always say, hey, you know, uh, don't treat uh kids like young adults, and at the same time, so many adults we act like kids when we don't have our way, or we still have the unhealed parts of ourselves that come out of our childhood traumas or or issues, and I think it takes a great deal of awareness to be able to integrate all of that or put it into perspective. I I feel as if running into a counselor like yourself, a mental health condition like yourself, would be such a an asset for anyone out there who wants to sit and talk with somebody who gets it, somebody who has the sensitivities that you bring to the table. I think these are incredible attributes and skills that you have put together, and it's it's just uh affirming actually to sit with you and to hear you put it all together from your own life into a helping profession that is able to bless others and for you to call this a calling that is absolutely huge, right? That's a that tells me how much you bring to the moment, and uh that's it's almost it feels a bit divine.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Without a doubt, that's why I'm I'm I'm very thankful that I can always uh look back upon the past, especially everything that happened at West Virginia, and just know for a fact that I'm happy the way things unfolded after the event. Because obviously I'm never uh happy that adversity uh happens in the way it did, but I'm happy that I didn't allow that version of me to stay wounded, like you said, and and I addressed those

Masculinity And Choosing Therapy

SPEAKER_01 18:07

issues. And I think another thing I definitely want to make sure I I uh take time to promote while we're on this pod is that, you know, of course, I went through one of the hardest transitions of my entire life, and I was able to actually step out and ask for help. And I think that's something where we talked about earlier about uh masculinity. It's very easy as an athlete to just be like, oh yeah, you know, bad stuff happens, uh, you know, move on from it. I believe it's one of those things that goes to show you, like, no, like I was in a very vulnerable space. I was not feeling like myself, and I'm brutally honest with, you know, people who, you know, ask about my story because it serves as a a reminder of human uh human connection, but also just gives people a lot of the confidence for them to address their, you know, their own issues, right? Like we all have issues, or we're all going to have issues down the road. And so I was very fortunate to to meet with a a counselor as well. And I think how you said it was divine. One of my favorite parts about the story was that, you know, as someone who was in therapy for an extended period of time to work through those issues, as the client, I was staring my future career like face to face. And so being the clinician and you know, helping clients, it's it's one of those life-altering and just like a life-changing uh opportunity to be on both sides of the spectrum, to be both a client and the clinician.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

And I feel like you embody that that the obstacle is the way, and you and and it's not about running away from the obstacle or avoiding it. Tell me about tell me about being a dad.

Fatherhood And A New Purpose

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think I'm just very fortunate that uh my wife and I, we welcomed our son Miles uh literally on January 1st. So he's a New Year's baby. Congratulations. Thank you. And so I think for me, it's one of those things that he has given me such a renewed purpose in life to not only continue being a great uh person, but to continue being a great professional because now I get to, you know, have my own little uh my own little version of myself to look up to. And I think for me, it it stems from the relationships that I've been able to build within my own family structure. Obviously, the the parents that uh have poured and supported me ever since I was a kid outside my family structure. And of course, you know, learning more about my wife's family structure, it just gives me the ability to know, like, as a man, um, you know, who's raising a future uh future man, I have to do a lot of the inner work so that way, you know, I can help prepare him as best as I can as he gets older. So obviously can't wait till he gets older, but just enjoying, you know, being home and and and helping him reach his developmental milestones and just be a safety, uh, a sense of safety for him. And kind of just, you know, giving me an ability to cherish, cherish time a lot more differently rather than you know constantly be on the hustle of trying to find the next thing. I feel that parenthood is maybe more grounded more than ever.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

So do you think Miles is going to be an athlete?

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Yeah, that is that's such a great question. Um as a as a part of my 18-year plan that I've developed for him, uh, I could definitely see it, and I definitely hope so, just because I think all kids, you know, as a youth should definitely go through, you know, at least youth athletics. Uh and you know, high school, collegiate, and pro is is totally different for everyone's journey. But no, I definitely plan on putting him in uh in a bunch of different sports, team and individual. Uh, I want him to learn how to socialize, to obviously build his physical motor skills. Uh, his technical skills, but it it it depends. I'm I'm gonna definitely give him a lot of autonomy on like what sport he wants to do, but that's my expectation for him is I definitely want him to experience the the joy and the value of sport because there's just so many different life lessons that prepare you for your future that you can learn in sport.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

I I can already tell about when you use the word autonomy and that the level of balance that you bring to the table is going to be phenomenal

Mentors And The Power Of Support

SPEAKER_00 22:28

here. The question I had that came up for me as you were speaking is in your life, which parent or parents or parental figures were instrumental to you as you faced some of the challenges you mentioned earlier? And and uh how did how did that work for you as a kid uh growing up?

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Yeah, absolutely. Um, of course, my mom and dad, they always supported my my academic and my my sport goals. So uh another parental figure that um really played a big part of me was my uh my sport trainer. His name is Troy Jones, and uh we were based in Maryland at the time, but he's in Florida. But he's been training athletes, you know, of all all different levels for like almost like 30 plus years, if I'm not mistaken. And so he took me in really when I was kind of late to the training game, if you will. Like I was a late bloomer in high school. I didn't really, I didn't really take football seriously until maybe my junior year, about like, all right, am I actually serious about playing? And so I got to work with him for really like two years, and he helped me just get in physical and mental shape to uh excel at West Virginia. So that was like a really cool, he's he's definitely another alternative father figure to me because it was such a rewarding call and text message conversation when I told him I made the team. It was such a rewarding support system to have him when I got cut from the team because he was also like, Well, hey, if you have an opportunity to try back out, like you know, when you come back home, we're we're back at the gym. So he was also with me during those pivotal moments because he trained me to, you know, get ready for those final two work workouts. Uh, but when I didn't uh when I didn't make it and I didn't have my opportunity to come back to the team, he was always like, Man, look, I'm proud of you regardless. So it was like, I know it sucks, and I know it's not what you wanted, but at the end of the day, make this experience make you a better man. So I definitely would say he's another uh father figure that definitely worked out for me during the best and during the worst of times.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

That's powerful. So there were mentors, the parental figures. I just feel as if it might work with men too. It's hard for us sometimes to be able to ask for help and to receive help and to submit to mentorship or the discipline of that. Uh but it sounds like it really helped you quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yes, absolutely. I think that's one thing I never uh I never wanted to have kind of disrupt my life, my life is using pride in the wrong way. And I think it's very easy for, you know, especially for men to just be like, no, I'll just figure it out, uh, or you know, I'll just I'll get through it, but then, you know, we're not addressing the actual wound. And I think for me, I was the first person to be like transparent and open and honest with my family and my friends that supported me with my my football journey. Because when they asked me how I was doing, there was no reason to lie. There was no reason to be uh ashamed of what was happening. I was just dealt a very bad hand, and of course I'm gonna feel some type of way. So being open and honest from the jump made me the man I am today, but also it just speaks volumes into the uh the environment that my support systems created for me to be honest as well. And so, yeah, I feel like anyone who is you know struggling in success or struggling with adversity, ask for help because it's only gonna make you a better person.

Finding The Right Kind Of Help

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Yeah, and I think getting the right help is important. Being able to talk to somebody like you, I would want to talk to a guy like you because you sound balanced, you get it, you have walked the walk, so it has an instant credibility. You have obviously the training and all of the the uh accolades are around you, yes, yes, but the person also the genuine authentic human being that you are, I think really helps uh uh connect and would help men connect. And I I and we're not bashing guys here. I think people misunderstand us as men. Sometimes what happens is we're just conditioned. We are we're conditioned to to be autonomous, we've been conditioned to be alphas, we've been conditioned to handle things ourselves, to grin and bear it. That's part of what it is to be masculine, or at least what has been imposed on us, or what we've become accustomed to. And I I think it takes work to be able to trust that others can handle us if we were to bring those things forward. And uh sometimes it's better not to come forward if you're not gonna get the right kind of help because it's a it's a disaster when it goes wrong. So uh what a pleasure to talk to you. We're out of time. Uh, this is unfortunate, uh, but also fortunate because what I'm gonna do, if that if you're okay with this, Michael, would you be open to coming back to the sweet spot to continue our conversation? Could this be part one of our conversations where folks got to understand you and see you, and then we can do a part two and three?

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Oh no, without a doubt. Um, I'd be honored. And as a as a as someone who's really big on uh on movies and and the power of cinema, I am always open to doing a trilogy or a uh type of uh podcast situation. So I absolutely love that.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Yeah, that would be super cool, and I really appreciate that because I think we'd be intrigued to hear your thoughts on some wider issues, but I thought I felt as if we had to get to know you. So one thing I forgot to mention as before we close, and I have to do this.

Part Two Plans And Caribbean Roots

SPEAKER_00 28:18

So I was born in Trinidad and got up here when I was 11 years old, and uh I I think in talking to you, we share a sort of a commonality.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Yes, we do. So uh growing up, my dad is actually from Trinidad, Tobacco as well, and then my mom is from St. Vincent. And so they both, you know, my mom went to Canada when she got a little older and then came over to the US as well. And then my dad was raised in uh Trinidad and then came into uh New York where he spent the majority of his like early childhood as well.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, sir. I really appreciated the time you spent with me today on the sweet spot here for Science for Soul and for Success. This is the Sweet Spot. We are speaking with an amazing human being, Michael Manswell. We are gonna keep going with this. This is gonna be super powerful as we continue our trilogy or whatever, however many sessions it takes us to complete this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Thank you, sir. You have a great one. I look forward to being back.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Thank you, thank you, thank you, and we will be in touch, okay? Sounds good.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Science is tough. Success emotion, science, science, science, stop, success emotion, level up your mind, level up your life, level up your purpose one day I done stop success emotion.